You asked for True Crime, so here it is! Guest Judge Josh from Lunch Meat Magazine 1986 vs 1996

FORMARY MEDIAUCAV The pixe o play, but dotor a ran again upon that caput o Te Power, GOP com, fight for Watt, Lov, Co, opoe, ECOPI, encritat, aete, Ote Boteco, would take a grave at O, bally Ha Siiaaatano comfite for what you love on eows roadcasting from the biobaday studios, whear water. Does it better? It's the adult. Only Retro Game Show where the Eighties and nineties do battle, because it's your history, we just fight for it. Welcome to dueling decades, let's mee this week's duelers and the decades they will be fighting for first off the challenger Dueling, with true crime of nineteen. Ninety six everybody jokingly here from this cast commentary: Saint Caterin's, Ontario, Canada, the home of true crime and his opponent representing true crime, F, nineteen, eighty six. He is the often disputed, but yet undefeated dueling decades champion Mancrush, that's Ri! I actually was defeated, not actually maybe not in a singles battle, but I did lose in a tag match an attack match. I have felt what loss feels like it's, not nice, and if you listen to the last episode, you can't see how pissed off I get when the judge is not right. That's why John's out for this episode and we got jo on from odce meat, 'cause he's going to be fair and Tas, always hering our show. We need someone to adjudicate all of this Awesomeness, so let me introduce to you tonight's judge, making his dueling decades debut. Please rise for Judge Josh from lunch meat VHS. Thank you, IM, abot pleasure to be here. I'm ready to go, I do it and if you haven't checked it out, what is it lunch meat VHS com? It is on vs DT com. It is Lunr vhs on all social media. If you just took a punch B, Dssyo're going to see all the vh stuff that we do so and just tell people what it is because m most of the time we have like other potcasters on but you're, not a podcaster. What are you? I am a publisher producer Um. I do a Printen onmine magazine all about t, approciation celebration and preservation. Basically, everything fom a print magazine, onmine article- you know online coverage apparel releases- shows basically anything I can do to preserve the DS culture and share it with people. That's all e want to do so s you're as you're trying to get into the VHS world. We got a lot of stuff going on plug via Jessfast Dude, oh Vaga, that, yes, of course, I'm doing a few festivals this summer, but one of my favorites on in the entire world mhoning drive in the HSS part. Three is happening on July, Twelfth and Thirteenth. It is two days vhs on the big big big screen and a very cool party around it. Amonin drive in super cool tons of tapes, blots of vendors, clepte, Camraderie lots of cultural collection and, of course, B hs on the big street. So it's all about you know it's going to be a lot of fun. I'm really looking forward to it ad hope. Tyeu all come out and hang out sweet Mike Ranger and I will be there tell yo right now we're going to be there, at least for I can't wait to give you all a big Hok, ah Helly. Only if I win ill hog you if you're a loser. I hog myself, all the time and workwe we'll see how this goes here. Yeah. I can't I can't lose tonight, I'm a judge. So I'm happy about that. I you know can't lose it'SGOOD ALL RGH. Ladies and Gentlemen, the following contest will be held under dueling decades rules and as for the Dueling Decades Championship, the Judges Coin Flip shall decide who picks first out of the five duelling decades categories, movies, television, Music News and, of course, hot products. A judgeis ruling will determine who wins each round, allowing the victor to choose the next available category. The first three rounds are worth one point: each with rounds. Four and five worth two points. Apiece in the winning decade shall be decided by the highest overall score after all five rounds. Deellers, perhaps you can help solve a mystery as we play some Jo Anos e. This and if you haven't noticed Joe Wer, this hat for you Igot, I'm guessing it's like French Canadians from over the top. It's my bunaut hat, I cann. I couldn't even see what had said but I' I'm on top of anything over the top, though t's fantastic sweet, I tried to power, grow ththe, one wo Mustash for this episode, but it didn't happen. Awesome better happened for next time. strawed in with a mark, oh challenge accepted brotherall righ. Let's go down to judge Josh for the official Tossoff, so I'm going to talk. What do I got right here? I got a lighter and this letter says chill out on one side and then on the other side, it is Barco. Whoever wants to call it Joe all right. I got a call t chell out right. WHY NOT GINTA have to? Well. I don't know it's it's my my soul. You want to chill outside yeah man. Don't I sound chilled out good shorte? Yes, so I'm going to flip it and it is, but till outside, of course, Rri great choice. Aow. I think we're got to start with hot items. Hot Products, Baby Ho pronducts all right, you're up man. This particular item is an automobile. It was the last year that this automobile was ever made and it is the famous Ford Broncho wow made fat by the o j Simpson car chase of a few years. Prior. It was just continued in nineteen, ninety six and so yeah. This was the final year. It was one of the years where the most broncos were manufactured, a top three of the twenty years that it was in existence. It was so in demand after it was discontinued, they're, actually bringing it back from e for the twenty twenty model. I Ford claimed that there discontinuing had nothing to do with O J Simpson and all of that, but they said they wanted more svs with four doors. The new Bronco has four doors. So why didn't the nineteen? Ninety seven one have four doors. That's you know that's up ter question and then there was thet famous joke in arrested development when George Bloth was looking for the Ford Bronco and he as like. Oh No, we don't sell that anymore because of the whole or j thing. This is the escape yeah. You know what was cool about the Bronco. It was a cool truck. Actually, it's not really cool, but one of the the worst things about it was at didn't have four doors. She always had to do that thing where you put the seat forward and if you're, a bigger guy, like myself remark, there's no fucking way: You're getting N xc hell, no, the fore Bronco was huge, but that truck was strictly a two seter ye H, yeah. The back was just for throwing stuff in, like you know, gloves knives. Whatever clever pick, I like that. Thank you, okay. My second one is a book. It is from the n from the writer James Elroy, who wrote Blackdalia and La confidential. Among many others, it was called my dark places in La Crie memoir and it's actually half memoir half investigated journalism about a cold case that was actually his own mother's murder. When he was ten years old, my goodness, so he tells the story about how it affected him and all these things he tells the stor. He hires a an old Lla detective to help him try and hunt down and solve the cold case as they work through that and he works through his own feelings in the novel and then he also explains what led him to Right Black Dalia, which was he didn't understand why his mother's death was so easily forgotten and why it didn't get the attention in the news like like the Lizabeth, smart murder and all these things, and it was- and so he obsessed about that. So He created a fictionalized story surrounding the blackdallium murder and that's kind of what led him into his ole his whole La Crime thing what made him famous wow, but it was a real story of his mother. It was a real story. She was Murdr in n nineteen. Fifty Eight, the the book was release, Houn, nine uteen and ninety six. It was one of times best books of the year and it was n New York Times notable OOE, Osan, nine hunded and eighty six sweet. Okay, all right over to you, man, Chrush. What do you got for? Hunt products all right? Much like Joe. I took the way of the the novels in the literature this 'cause. I think it's the best way to go for this C se. What the hell are you going to find like handcuffs n? A testing was already you know they already came out with that. So what the, How r you going to find Si January nineteen six, the Book Zodiac by Robert Graysmith, was published an the book. It WASNIN NEW YORK, Time's best seller and it' sold four million copies in his lifetime. Basically, t Zodiac covers the onsacl murders by the Zodiac killer in northern California, in the late sixties and early seventies. The reason this book was such a big deal of the time was because it's the first complete account of the Zodiac. I mean you look at it now and we have all this information about the Zodiac, but back then people just had like news articles and things like that, and it also inspired the two thousand seven David fincher movie. It started j Gillenhol and I think the most shocking thing about that last daymen is the movie. Zodiac is fucking, twelve years old, already yeahyeahgot's a really good movieto. It's long. It's L, I remember it's like three hours, long or something, but I like most of the pics I have tonight. Zodiac is actually still unsolved, which is freaky in its own right. Nto. This Day, authorities still haven't identified. The man who murdered at least seven people, four men and three women. He claims to have killed thirty seven, some people believe he's killed upwards of fifty. You would figure that since he was never caught, you know. Maybe he took a show on the road you know. Did he really stop cold Turkey? It's it's pretty crazy to think about, but the killer. He name himself, Zodiac himself, he's self named and in a bunch of letters he sent to the northern California press in the seventies he sent multiple letters with strange cyphers or like cryptography or whatever in t e in these papers. To this day, they've only been able to crack one of them and each letter it contained the four hundred and eight symbol Cryptogram, and he claims that his name is actually written in one of them. But here's the one that they decoded, I'm just going to give you this one, to give you some some chills on the back of your neck Thir's, a guy that possibly could have killed up the fifty people, they'd never caught all right. This is what he wrote and his s what they deciphered. I like killing people, because it's so much fun, it's more fun than killing wild game in the forest, because man is the most dangerous animal of all. To kill gives me the most inly experience. It is better than getting your rocks off with a girl. The best part of it is when I die, I will be reborn in paradise and all the people that ihave killed will become my slaves, and I will not give you my name. Then you will slow me down and stop me from collecting slaves for my after life and that's from his nineteen, seventy or nineten sixty nine letter. Then he actually had another letter in nineteen. Seventy where he wrote. My name is blank and that was followed by a thirteen character. Cypher they'd never figured that one out, but then, in this final letter that's actually been proven to be him, there's been other like bakes. He ended the letter by saying Zodiac. Thirty, seven San Francisco Police Department zero. So that's where they got the number that he is claing killed. Thirty, seven people, it's funny that letter that you deciphered there that the decipher that you read the exact same thing. I wrote in My College: Admissiondid you get in Yeah: they were, they were desperate. The low wow wow all right. So then my second one, I also went the the literature route February. First, nineteen, eighty six, you got the definitive study of John Wayne Gasi that was released. The name of the novel is buried dreams inside the mind of a serial killer by Tim Cale, and it basically just sheds light on gazes abuse of childhood growing up all the way to the murder of thirty three boys. If they ended up finting in his crawl space of his house, everybody knows I'm sure John Way. Gasy e goes by the killer, clown a suburban Chicago business man who sends to death in nineteen. Eighty for the string of horrific murders in the bodies of victims, like you said, were found at his crawl space into planes. Illinois, it's just fucking frightening and the Duk went by Pogo the clown of all things, such a crazy name. He had moonlighted on the sideout. You ever wonder it's w. You know what one thing's weird we do, this episode N, it's usually lighthearted and the stuff that they we're delivering. Now really is not so it's really think I get joke about with the stuff, but the steward is just crazy. Mother, fucker he's he's moonlighting on the side as a part time clown. How many of these kids that he moonlighted do this clown gig did he have bary in his crall space? I asked the same question o'fe every clown. I've ever seen, my my wife is deathly afraid of Colan. I can understand why woul shit like this, but well when you hire a clown online. Now that should be one of the standard questions. How many children do you have buried in your basement and or backyard ooh up to six is fine as long as you know, you're cheap rightguys are going there all right. Let's go over to our judge, Josh from lunch meat V JS for the ruling forround one in a very toup round. I, like the hot item, little disciplined. There was no mention of the O J Simpson workout. I don't know what year that came out, but I was just hoping that it happened. When we talk about O J Smpon 'cause, I released the workout and then they released it with police footage. So that was pretty cool. The Bronco thing was amazing. I loved the the framing of that and and all that and nat the Bronco, but I really think that thes obiacilar story, it is really Crik. It is like really creepy because of the cryptic like the Cryptogram, and I'm going to have to say Zodiacular is, is what I'm going to go with there 'cause it was. It was, you know, not O J and not Pogo, which is pretty deep, but VODIAC killer is very cool, especially 'cause. It's still unsolked. I really I really like that. So I'm going to go with that all right sweet. So we got nineteen. Eighty six on the board, alrigh! That's a one point round! MANCRUST! You have control of the board all right. You did hop products Um, let's go to news, I'me been sure if this is where I should be going, but I think it's a one pointer. So let's do this all right so April, Eleventh Nineteen, eighty six Y, you guys got to follow me a little bit on this one because it does come to a point. You had Michael Platt and William Maticks all right. There ere two military buddies that decided to go on a crime. scree a crime spree thet began in October of nine teen. Eighty five. Initially they had killed the man in October, eighty five and they stole this car and from there they graduated to Rober Robbing Armored Cars Bank robberies and they were doing this for the next six months. So it leads you to March of ninet eighty six where they shot a man and they stole his Black Chevy Monicarlo, and this is where the story starts to turn a little bit now. The FBI is involved, obviously B'cause therew's bank robberies and they knew that platmatics were driving a stolen black Monicarlo, so they had something to look for so on April, Eleventh, the FBI was conducting what they call a rolling steak out. They were just in the area of where they thought this might be. They were looking for the stolen Monacarlo. At this point, here's a thing, though they had no idea who these guys were. They didn't know their names y didn't know how many they were if they were armed, Whit, they looked like or anything all they knew was that they were looking for a needle in a haystack and then all of a sudden two agent spot this Monacarlo at nine thirty am, and they begin to follow it and before too long, another FBI car starts to tail the Monicaralo as well. So now that these guys have back up in sight, they try to pull the car over, but to no avail. They can't get this gy to pull over, so they try to tap them off the road and instead they all end up crashing in this little, like gully of like on the side of the street kind o like a parking lot, so they're all trapped in there now the two agents they were initially following him. The one guy had his gun on the seat, loaded ready to go, but he didn't have in his hand when they crashed his gun went flying. So he had nothing to shoot with, and the other guy in the car broke his glasses, which rendered him unable to see and without as glasses as guy was legally blind. So then, from this point, all hell breakes loose, and this became the notorious nine hteen and eighty six FBI, Miami shootout. It only lasts for four minutes, but in those four minutes a hundred and twenty five rounds were fired between eight F BI agents and two suspects platte one of the the suspects he was struck. Twelve times and Madex was struck six times before they were finally killed, F, Bi agents, Jerry dove and Bengrogen Bengrogen, I believe, was the guy that was legally Blinde. They were killed and five other agents were wounded. So this is where it all comes to a head right here. So in spite of this awful event, the shooting led the F. I yo officially abandoned the revolver because of its difficulty to reload under fire, and it's lack as stopping power. For instance, Platt had been shot before anybody got hit and the round was two inches from his heart, but the round that they were using was not powerful enough to penetrate deep enough til. They hit him in the art and kill Hem, which could h ended the entire thing. Basically, the FBI switched to magazine, Fed semiautos and then, from that point all police departments around the nation pretty much followed suit. So it's pretty crazy. How one little inscene event like that? You know sparked something that was much bigger in the long run. My second story, this one's, not as bad as that one: Oh thereis death, but not not the way that one was so you had January fifteenth nineteen. Eighty six, I don't need much detail with this one. If you grew up in the eighties or nineties, you know this guy, you know the family there's no doubt about it, but before we get to January fifteenth, we need to go back to December, sixteenth nineteen and eighty five, and on the night of December, sixteenth, Paul Castalano, who was the head of the Gambino crime family. He was actually shot and killed outside of the spark steakhouse in Manhattan that Yous shot up by a group of like Gambino family conspirators that wanted him out. Allegedly John Godty was one of those conspirators that wanted him dead. They were responsible for killing Casilano, which basically placed a huge vacancy at the top of the gambeing, a prime family. So now we can get back to January fifteenth of Nineteen six, and this is the day that John Goddy was selected by a bunch of Capos and the Gambinos to become the new head of the Gambino crime family. Basically, he became like the Dapper don overnight. He began wearing, like tellord, like silk Italian suits his face was all over the news back then, like I lived in New York, so I saw it all the time, but I'm pretty sure it was national. Like everybody knows who John Gavy and then, of course he was also called the toughlan Don Ou know he had a couple of acquittals that year he actually dodged an attempt on his life that year and prior to finally be convicted in n nineteen. Ninety two yeah he was making hundreds ofd million dollars, fo the GAM Ben, no cime family. You know he was a busyman. They had loan sharking drug trafficing, bookmaking raggeteering prostitution, bodcasting Odcasta, Gamdan extortion. It was like a one stop shop for crime, but all that said John got. He wasn't only a kingpin. He was all over pop colture in the lady, his early nineties. Everybody knows who Ja Godhe was so that would be my story. It Ay Fifteenth Nineteen sixt the day John Godty takes over the gambinal crime family s good pick all right, Joe Finley. What do you got for True Crime News? Well, Christmas of nineteen. Ninety six was a nice day, but boxing day wasn't for one particular person, the murder of John Bda Ramsay, so she was killed that she was raped and killed that day found in her basement. It then sparked one of the largest media frenzies of the NVOF, an investigation. I know we'd just been through the O J trial, which was a huge thing, but now this one was following the entire investigation: lots of things leading to people suspecting the parets. They end up being cleared decades later s, the mom dies without without any closure on the subject, special came out in two thousand and sixteen on the anniversary which suggested that the brother was the likely culprit and then that the brother sued, the network, four two hundred and fifty million dollars for defamation. Another man claimed when he was in Europe to an actual: U S, officer, an undercover officer that he had raped, Jomanda, ramsy and then accidentally killed her, and so they began the investigation into him and then found out that td naevidence didn't match. So he was just lying about the entire thing, but it's something that is still unsolved and to this day still everybody knows that little girl's name. She wasn't a celebrity per se. She was a a little pageant girl, but but aside from that, you say Jumpana Ramsey and people who weren't even born n Nineteen N. Ninety six, no you're talking about- and it still has specials going to this day yeah. Let's not forget the popular theories that people are still talking about, that John Bena Ramsey was never murdered and that she's really Katy Perry. Now, Oh my God. Yes, people say that yeah I I have heard that Oly ship that's right up there with chibby chase really being Jim Morris yeah, that's ridiculous. I ive heard that you actually shared that one with me Weit, so chevy chases in Gim, Moriton. No, no Wowe, don't know this. Wait are you goin kidding. My life is alie in cases like, I think I said this te Mar I every ca's like six five howl tall was Jim Morrison like Jim Morson was was really short. That's the thing that got me Yeah Jim Morson was under six feet tall, so well. Jom Tay Rami is shorter than Katy Parry. So well s 'cause. She wasas also a child all right, Jo. What are you got for your Second News Story? All right number, two we're going to go back a few months, we're going to go back into the summer and we're going to go to the summer Olympics where the Centennial Olympic Park and Atlanta was bombed, a forty pound bomb was planted and a phone call went into nine one and one saying there was a bomb in the park and they had thirty minutes. The bomb did go off, killing two people and injuring a hundred more immediately. A security guard, Richard Jewel was named a suspect and was later cleared because he had reported a suspicious package around the same time as all this was going on years later. A couple of years later, anyways Eric Robert Rudolph was charged and convicted of that crime, as well as two other bombings in Atlanta and one in Birminghan Amalabama. He was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences, plus one hundred and twenty years in prison. How does that even work he's got a gotta. Keep him alive, he's Gonta go he's got to sti in a ball, not a mater. I mean. Does that make any sense to anybody like if you put somebody away for that long, you sensinto them and then add another hundred and twenty years, how much money does that cost compared to just buying a you know like a two dollar bullet? Just oh done, I think, there's a secret street cred thing going where it's like. Okay, if I'm going to be found guilty, I want to have the most years anybody's ever been given so ridiculous, such a waste so yeah, but that was a big deal, because obviously it was a domestic terrorist act during during a domestic Olympics and got a lot of attention, of course, and there was a lot of international fair ecause. There were people from all over the world in that place. Already, let's go down to the ruling for this round it tough. I mean the news was really different in eighty six and ninety six and John Gotty resouns. I think that you know John Gadi is resented throughout all kinds of culture because he was such a boss, H, Jen bde, Ramsey also resounds for a lot of people, maybe 'cause it's now also because it was a huge scandal and it continues to live on to today. Um I mean I've never heard any kind of rumors. That John Goddy is somebody else there might be, it might be out there, I'm not don't quote be on that, but I'm going to have to go with Jobana Ramsy, just because that's just too wild, I mean it's still on the headlines like what I think I just saw jomay rams and the eadlines like like a year ago or something like they found heir body or something like that, and it's just like yeah, that's just really powerful and yeah. I'm Gonto O Jon Meranbi. They found her bod or they just they thought they found her. Now I mean it was it was like the Tun or something like I mean like weekly world new, the might as well be you know, I mean it t it's just still resounding and you know like I said the news was really different in eighty six and ninety six, but uh I mean for me. I think garmaneremsy was just such a media spectacle and has spread so much like John Gotdy is legendary in his own realm, but I think what what a so tat it Woas. You know: Itd Resoun throug everybody like, even if you were', if you were born Pas n, nine tred, nd. Ninety six, you wouldn't know who Jobi Rano is probably so I think that that kind of like takes all so I would go for that. Thank you already joll. You Tie up the game and take control of the board. What category would you like to use? Next? Who Um I am torn? Let's go and dip into the movies wow movies, pree, two point movie: Ei, I'm excited about difference. So there we go yeah Oky, released the day before John behav Ramsey was murdered Christmas Day n and nine Huteen an ninety six. The people versus Larry Flint, good movie, Um Flint, was famously charged for obscenity. He was charged for a contempt of court when he said fuck the judge in a court setting they don't care for such things. He was jailed for six months for desecration of the flag for wearing a flag as a diaper and his court, and then his famous defamation of character and Liabel ov lawsuits against Jerry Falwell are well known, nuts, not technically crimes. The other stuff was, though, of course it got. A lot of a fan fare got the Oscar Buzz. We got Woodiharrilson for his partrayal of Larry Flint. We got courtny love for her best supporting actress. I it was yeah fantastic movie that told a major story about a man going to jail for his belief in free speech. Yeah Courtya, loves character was a real stretch for her. In that one I feel was it. I mean, with with the exception of didn't H, that woman ended up getting like HIV or something didn't she. I believe so yeah yeah, I just by pulling she out of my ass O, no think she did right and her lovers brains didn't meet the wall in this movie now who's the Canadian equivalent of Larry Flint. Oh actually. This is really funny that you mentioned this because it's a ver, a this man Na Moses Nimer, who r runs a bunch of TV stations now he's not a pornographer by any means, but he ran all the TV stations that were like the ideal. For you know the adolescent kid all. The boot movies would come on like post ten PM on a Saturday, tiht Onand, so he he was that guy. But now he actually runs a series of religious base, T V stations actually of which I work full. I don't work for directly, but I work for indirectly, and he now runs the assage. He runs what's called idea city and is its basically like the Canadian version of tentoks. I'm not disappointed the Canadian Rson of Larryflin is just the hello morp. It's just ten cock, but Um yeah, there's yeah, there's nobody! NO NOBODY UP HERE! 'CAUSE WE W'll just get hustler. We don't. If we didn't need a Canat Nue, it's too cold. We get dressed B, our the second movie we are looking at, we go. It was came out December, twentieth, N, Housan, nine hundred and ninety six featured an oscawinning performance from James Woods who got the best supporting actor. It was about the civil rights movement and it was about the murder of Medgar Eversa, famous civil rights activist by Byron Delabeqwith, who had gone through several misstrials. Nobody would convict the man for the murder and then another lawyer comes along played by Alic Bodwin in this movie to help the wife of Baker Evers played by Whoopi Coldburg to finally get a conviction, and this movie is Gost to Mississippi S. that's a crazy story, a really important one. Everyone should see that movie and I remember the weirdest thing I remember hearing about that story. Is Years later they had to exume Megar Evers's body and his son, who was a young boy when his father was killed. They called him down to view the body. Normally they wouldn't do that, but they did it because for some crazy reason, after all those years, the body was perfectly preserved and looked like he was buried the week before, so they actually called th the sun down's. Like Hey, you got to take a look at this he's reading, hosslet right, Enis, castall, right man, crushwhat ar you got for this, surround man all right, good stuff. I think these will resine with Josh a little bit, maybe ecause of the year, maybe because both of them, I know from renting on Vhs, so I' The throz out there November seventh, nineteen six we get. This movie came out to modest fan, fair, not a huge marketing budget. So it was more of a word of mouthing than anything else. The titallist movie was originally going to be. Love kills before they change it to the more appropriate sit and Nancy we get Oscar Award Wen and Gary Oldman in his first leading role in a movie to this point, his career heas, basically just a stage actor. This movie was based upon the events that transpired eight years earlier in n nineteen. Seventy eight real quick October nineteen, seventy eight CIDVICIOS's girlfriend Nancy spongen is found stabbed to death in their New York City Hotel Room. She was fouled with one single stab wound right to the stomach, and the knife just happened to be something that Sid recently purchased so sit ends up getting arrested for the murder. He goes back and forth saying he killed her. He didn't kill her. She fell on the knife, but he llegit was so high and heroin that he really didn't have a clue either way what happened. He had no idea Um, but it doesn't end there a couple of weeks later still tryig to kill himself by slitting his wrist with a broken light, Bulb Jeez and then th when they brought in to Bellviue for observation, he tried to jump out the window of Belviue fast forward like a month or so he gets to an altercation while he's out on bail. They throw him into riker's island where he gets completely detoxed for fifty five days before overdosing on heroin. The day he gets out of jail and dies, and it just so happens that his mom buys him the heroine on that day and her thinking was if she bought the heroin for him. He wouldn't be out. You know, looking for heroin on his owne, so owould be much safer but as it turns out, she bought like Shit heroin and he was pissed off. So one of his buddies went out and they found some real good heroine and brought it back and they had this little gathering and his new girlfriend's place or a girl that he was banging or whatever and his mom was there, who I guess his mom was just like one of the guys she wasn't like his mom. She just like, hang out with him a GT, so there's actually rumors that on her deathbed that she said that she gave the lethal dose to him on purpose because she knew that he couldn't handle going back to jail because supposedly when he was in Rikers, he was getting raped and beaten and all this othershit for those fifty five days- and there was no proof of him ever really killing her. Nobody knew what happened, but she just figured that that's what was going to happen. So apparently the rumor is that she told somebody in her deathbed that she was the one that did it and it was just him. You know, taking that one last hit and killing himself, but another interesting thing from this movie or actually from the whole situation. Um Nancy, spongion's mom. She didn't want sids ashes on her grave SI. Mother actually asked her. She said no, so jerry only from the mifits was was friends with him and said fucket and drove sids mom out there and they dumped the ashes on Nancy's grave. So you have this. Nineteen monthlike completely turbulent relationship and you get a dead Nancy at twenty and a dead sit at twenty one. That was crazy, yeah. It's Il tist rock and roll love stories of all time. Yeah. I it's crazy like the moment they met. I don't know if it was the same day or whatever, but she was punching a wall with her fist and made hem all bloody, so he just takes kee he's like Oh shit, she's doing that, let me show what I can do. It starts slamming his head against the wall until he splits his head open, that's love, man, yeah, that's Lov! We way to Fini O Lii en th they're made for each other really were sounds like he was just trying to gete her to stop and he just like you know, cout or attention for sure. So we'll move on to my second one. So we got Saturday November eighth, nineteen ND. Eighty six. We had this movie that premiered at the Chicago International Film Festival, even though it was filmed n in n nineteen and eighty five, it premiered in nineteen six, but it actually didn't get a theactrical release until nineteen. Ninety Joshyou might listen up on this one. You might know a little bit about this movie, I'm I'm thinking, definutely, lift me all right. So, over the course of four years, Henry Portrait of a serial killer, it was stuck Toring, the International Film Festival circuit because it was deemed x rated at the time, and nobody wanted to distribute this movie in actuality. This movie is one of the films that's responsible for the creation of the NC seventeen rating. You know, although at the time of its release it did go unrated, but this is the interesting thing here too, it was released to theater September seventh, nineteen, ninety NC, seventeen began October, fifth, nineteen, Ninety and- and even funnier thing is the first C. Seventeen movie was actually Henry but not Henryte, portrait ceral killer. It was Henry and June which came out the next month. But if you watch this movie ind this Wor I' I'm Gong to ask you a question: Your Josh. If you watch this movie before you, it's on Amazonpron, it's actually pretty team, and that version that's on Amazon, prime, is only an hour and twenty two minutes. I believe it's missing a lot and it's Um. I think it's rated aon there as well 'cause. I remember renting this from Joe's video was like a young juvenile delinquent and I clearly remember two different scenes that are not in the prime version. Jos. can you waigh in on this one? Have you seen this yeah? Of course I mean it's not going to be on AMIS on prime, I mean these are. This was a cold video Henry Porceri zero killer was do legged a lot because it wasn't available as much as people wanted to see it. I mean it's a a violent tremendous movie Um. You know I was hoping someony to bring this up. You know. I knew that this moe came out this year. That's cool, I mean not the SME going to slow your way but yeah. It's super important and I mean like, of course, Amazon's not going to show that stuff. I mean like you're right it brought on a new rating. They brought in a whole new perspective on fill, so I mean super important, really cool and yes, I don't think AMIS on trime whatever showhatn I. I cannot find that I I looked last night to see if I can find it and I used to have a copy. So I went through all my my DVDs and stuff and actually the copy that I have is the same exact shit copy. That's on Amazon, prime. So it's not the full one, but anyhowewe just give some details on this whole thing: The movieis about the real life, cerial killer, NLLUCAS and Otis tool and it's loosely base, but it's pretty close to the accounts they are provided by Henry Lucas. The thing about this guy is no one really knows. If he's killed, two people, eleven people, two hundred people thereare some people. That say, he only killed a few people, but based on the details of his is whereabouts and stuff they put that together and they don't think it's that many, but this guy once he got caught, he confessd to anything and there's a lot of information about the story online. If you wanted to dig deeper, but in any event he was just a sick fuck that was supposed to get the death penalty, but he actually ended up dying of heart failure. Instead, 'cause he got a reprieve, which is Shity B t those are my two picks yeah Wen lucky gut up. He still went out. I guess all right, let's go to the ruling for this round Josh. How did you score this one Te, a Touph One? I I I mean I have t yo Henry though I mean that that's huge uh like like we talked about, I mean it. It started a new rating. People were talking about that in nineteen. Ninety yeah and I mean well Bi dont in Wheryo Man Mycar, my dekade O was made. Then you Knowtha as made then especially like thinking about like how the movie was made and how it came out and how long it took. I think like to make a movie in that kind of year, and for that that kind of h lat the word OFM loking tor severity. I mean they got the really really important movie, especially for underground film, making and Um it still redounds throughout the community. Now a that t hs that you're talking about that has that full cut is, is hard to get get a hold of people. Look for it really important. There yeah the weird thing about this movie, and we've mentioned this bunch of times. If you just look on like Wicopedi or anywhere else online you're going to get dates all over the fucking place and the the dates that are on there said it was a plate at the Chicago Film Festival in September, and I actually didn't Evenh happen until November eighth, I found the ad and they don't even give like there's a little synopsis of each movie and then for Henry. It just says new mad in Chicago feature. Henry two dollar mission, one dollar for cinema, one one dollar percent of of Chicago members, and that's all the inf- I mean that's a real scary movie. Yeah! THAT'S SUPER SCARY! You know we're talking about true crime here, so it's like what is like everything we've been talking about so far. It's been really dark, you know and that that's a real darkness projection. It's like you're, making this biopec about this person. That was absolutely awful, and it's actually really viseral andcutting and real. So the fact that people have to go back to it and they still want to show it 'cause. I it accomplished good good like well made movie, but it's also like super weird and bad like this. Is it's something that people don't want to talk about? You know and, and people made a full Lang feature out of IT and T it. Performances are cool and like it, it's still a really well made in epended film and it's been all cut up and now Amazon prime is making it. I think I is putting it out. I I it says something for like how the longebity of that film and the underbelly of that film that still rebound from the making of it. You know because that V J as still out there, people still want it watching that hour or twenty two minute version, though it does not give it justice, it doesn't feel like the other version. It just feels like a regular like biopic, which is lik a dirty movie, yeah like a it. It's definitely like a harsh, visrle kind of movie. You know, and I mean Porture of scerikiller- is you know I mean, along with the stuper life of Jefke Damer, and you know stuff like that stuff that came out of the video era like stuff that was popularized on on VHS and do like V s and things like that. That is definitely in the top Cara for me personally, and I think, like in a general conscience. You know like that. Movie is really important and really really powerful, so good on you, then it's cool choice, all right, welet's roll on with our true crime battle. Mancrash you take control of the lead and the board. Where do we go for the next two point round? I think we'll go to music. I mean Fucki. It doesn't really matter at this point. It's two points, Tho one. It can go either way at this point too. I believe this is what they call anybody's games, gentlemen, and I'm really into it, I'm sure all right, so, music, we got July. Fourth, Independence Day. Nineteen six we get the debut album from thrash metal band, Floats Hem and Jetsam Doomsday forther, deceiver wit's, not a huge band, but they, if you know anything about floatem an Jetsum, they did have some m t V rotation, the EALY ninties had wating winter darkness and Um people probably remember this more about floaom and jetsum. Their original basis was Jason, newsted Whoas, actually on this album and it's his last album with floats him and Jetsan before he goes off to metallic an play bace for them. That is true yeah. That was a bad decision. Yeahwasno Yo, let that guy go sh. I gues he gust some some metal jets on right there fledindak well. This is my my biggest claim to fame. This album is sleep away camp too, because during one there's a shot when they pan across all the dead bodies in the cabin the camera pans through the carnage and low behold in an obviously placed copy of dooms day for the deceiver is right there in the scene, a phronic placement. Never hurt of anybody come on. Angela must have been a big fan, could be an accident like the starbucks com yeah. Well, I mean, I think, Oaata made a really good decision by putting the record in that Mook I mean, like that's a good idea. They called to it like the key grip and they were like Yo do just wherever you can take it just stash it there and you know, te'll sell mlease, just put it somewhere, just anywhere. Here's a free copy of the record. We think that's what happened if the record company you know slipped hem a little cash to get some publicity in man with lots, em and JETSEM. That's probably just like there was some crew like the guy who holds the boom Mike he's like man. This album is super awesome, I'm just going to like hide it in the movie and see if anybody notices and it Wal sleepaway camp to so they didn't o should do that. I would do the same thing. I would do the same thing oi I eres like I don't like got spake o directors like I don't like the space there. Something needs to go there ne. I need someboy some color pop. I got this record man oon put it right there. I believe who wout camp was playing records. You know what I'm saying. Only the coolest people do dooly like like. Oh iheard, Jerry got record lat's go over there, that' Ta Happen Pamela Spring Steen She's, the one that brought it out and put it there anyway. So the track I'm going to talk about in this record is track called she took an axe and it's about none other than Lizzie borden and here's a sample of the lyrics and it's actually, this the sample is a skipping rhyme from the late eighteen hundreds which it's Kinda catchy it says. Lizzie Boarton took an axe, gave her mother forty wacks when she saw what she'd done she gave her father forty one now in reality, though, the stepmom only received Nineteen Waks and the dad received eleven, but who's counting was. He born, of course, was fingered as a suspect behind the brutal axho o pause ever. Are you raling from a page right now cause if Youre, not you do't mail? OIE Teen, like I recite Shit in my head all day, long til I get on these episodes because that's the only way that I'm going to remember it m. That was a deperlative verb for you to use there. This is August August forth, eighteen. Ninety two is when this occurred. Yeah Lizza was never actually found guilty of the crime, but you know it's still hotly debated a hundred and twenty plus years later you know who the murder was. Did she get possessed withthe ghosts in the house like all this different type of Shit? It's end, like the thing, that's crazy about this eighteen. Ninety two- and this was a story that spanned the United States in eighteen. Ninety two you're talking about people or driving around fucking horses in eighteen. Ninety, two and people in California knew about Lizzie Bordon. That was the scaryt campfire story ever back then mean that was the hot share. Like I mean that's, what people are told 'cause. It's really really scar. It's still a scary story. Well, you know, what's even thearier is you can go to our house because it's a bed and breakfast and fall river mass, and I think it's like two hundred and fifty bucks a night. You could stay there. Two E hundred and fifty bucks yeah he's sold or what- and it seems like a lot- I don't know- maybe there's a coupon on groupon or something who know, but I I I don't know to see like a lot there's other places you can get forty wacks for two hundred and fifty bucks, yeah Thete Thorty One may forty one in Yo got the coupon. I don't know hjesus, I'm glad, there's some laughter. They come out of the ship. ECAUSE everything is so dark. I know how we need a Gud, CHURCHC, Tru, canior, Aldo Ae. It really is- and I said this to mark earlier- I dwell in the world. Fantaty and true crime is something that like Um, it's real and it gets Supor dark and I think that's that's why people gravitate to it. 'cause it's pase out of reality. I think all fantasies based out a reality, but I mean you know: Ojpimpson's, pretty scary e calls far yeah he's untwinter now, so it's extra scary yeah, Oh God, this one is h, even scarier. I think- and I don't even give much detail. I give a little bit of detail on the actual crime itself 'cause, it's so fucked up, but we got October, seventh and nineteen eighty six and this one it's interesting 'cause, it's a release from deaf jam records and I'm not talking about it's, not locool J. it's not the beasty boys is not EPMD and it's not public enemy. It's actually rain and blood by slayer. It's a deaf jams. First and oldly thrash mental band ever yeahpret, crazy, shet wow. So, for two years, arguably, like the biggest thrash metal band in the world, possibly of all time was signed to the world's top HIP Hoplabel, it's pretty hard to fathom that. But as an album I'd say, raynond blood is probably responsible for bringing slayer more into the mainstream because it actually made it to the billboards. Because of this album, I didn't. I Glu, I dou T man, e Ha Yeah t did make it high, but you actually know who made it happen, and this is. This is one of those guys whose hinder miss you either love 'em or you hate 'em and that's Rick Reuben, because he hightend the shit up after their first two houty Rick Ruben had so many so many hylike large records. I mean, I think, O's a great producer. You know for for the time for sure, but I mean you always look at all the the producers and stuff throughout history. The great producers, much like the artists great at their work, not necessarily the best people I mean Rick Reuben Phi Rip, Rot An rover Focus, so I mean like rook. Rubin was Super Focu. You know. I mean like he had a sound and everything just like every producer, but I mean, like I don't know I mean I know who Rick Rubon is I mean I I feel like everybody to lookinto the records e poduce knows who Rick Ruben Isn'n what he was doing. I feel like he definitely helped tefine a certain era of a particular kind of music. You know so don't Knowi'm a fan for somer Fani in respect. You know what I mean, and he was only twenty three at the time when he did this. He was as young as held he'd had no think like think about it, like only twenty three like what were you doing, er twenty three drinking bottles is Cisco, like the FS like like producing some of the most popular heavy records on earth, so its Ben a lot did he produce the record as well yeah, and it like this is not just like making a record. This is like one of the biggest metal albums ever and it came out a deaf gym. Now was this rict Reuben's first metal album? He produced, of course, he's produced some great ones throughout history. It was his first for deat jam 'cause, it was the only one deck jam, yeah 'cause. He was only there for two years after that, and then I don't remember if slayer left with him they might have. I don't think so. I think when they left deaf Jym, that was it, so they just had rain and blood on that the track I'm actually going to talk about from this. This record is angel of death and it's the first track on raining blood and it like crushes your freaking skull. When you listen to this thing, it's a four minute, fifty one second song, which is amazing, because the entire album is only twenty nine minutes, long, O wwit's fast. It's fast and hard man, just like you like it, but the tract that them in a highlay hill, because it's it's song about Joseph Mengley. Is it Mangoli how the fuckd you says last mening, Mangalangola, Ma Jango a mang. Basically the long story short of this thing was they were on tour. They just started. I think it was Jeff. Hanneman read a book about the angel of death while they were Toring as simple as that, and they got to the studio and it was still in his head and they ripped out this song and because this song went out, like people thought that these guys were like racist, like Nazi lovers and Shit, especially in Germany, which they weren't B'cause. If you look at the lyrics, do it they're just seeing what this fucker did? I mean sligters kind of racist, though a little bit I mean I'm talking about this song. I dot want to like Yo go into like yeah Netherbut people thought they were because of this song, who the hell knows, but to do is like a diabolical newsebag. There's like stories about him like smiling, like whistling songs and Shit, as he's doing selections to find people for his experiments. He's like sewing twins together to make them conjoined stabbing eyeballs out and like doing I like just crazy, fucking shit and the dew was a fucking asole and he got away with it. But just to and this on a semi happy note, he did die n nineteen. Seventy nine, while having a stroke in the middle of swimming, so hopefully that wasn't too pretty- he was just swimming around in a circle for a little while, hopefully Tatas panful as some of the shit that he did Y. Ah, you know Jeez, there's lots of ways: Docor Mangala could have died, swimming it's kind of a leftdown for me, but he had a stroke while swimming. So I culdkd could have Beeni'm hoping I'm oping. It's not the SARLACC pit or anything. But you're welcome to go and and look this stuff up and see all the shit he did, I'm not going to read it ecause, it's darker than anything happen raise, but those are my two picks for music. So what you got? Yo, okay, Gonta take Yit to September. Seventh, I'm going to take you to Las Vegas Nevada. A man just leaves the MGM grand with with his friend Shnight, and they go driving and theire head and down Flamingo Road. I believe it is and he stops at a red light and a white car comes up and puts four bullets in him, and the man's name was Topok. Chakurhe was shot. I there are many mysteries about this particular crime who did it? First of all, there are still different accounts of what happened. Nobody. There are several different acounts of where he was shot. Some people say he would shop four times in the chests, sometimes two in the chest and one in an arm one. In a leg, all over the place, some people say he was standing up out of the sun roof of the vehicle. Some people said he was sitting in the passenger seat with his seat belt on. But what we do know is, he did indeed die from the wounds in the chest. He's one lung stopped working. He was operatid on Multiple Times. He was resustitated multiple times over six days and his mother finally told them to no longer re Tryi to resucitate him and he died. Six days later, the man was an icon, then member previous member of Digal underground and obviously a huge solo career and a bit of an acting career too, and also to this day I mean h. He released more albums after his death than in his life almost, but he that's an again e maccabeli created when I eo with them any MSTER Ogevell and I'm going to say yeah and he was a Hologram once that went over really well, but it's it's just one of those things and people still talk about it, go to a mall tomorrow you will find somebody wearing a tupox shirt. I guarantee it and I even up to this year they just announced two days ago. Actually there's going to be a t v show that does a live. Look at the mysteries behind the deaths of both him and Biggie smalls. You know super mysterious, a lot of ties to the bloods and crypts and obviously should night being a big part of of the bloods and all of that tat. I don't want to talk to much in case her night accidentally urse this. I got him on my line. I mean Hespilesser as a show so he's on it she's on on CI, Glovy Baby. I knew it. I knew this is how I die, but yeah. So I mean that was a very big one and still a giat mistro this day. My second one I actually dips back into the movies a little bit. I take you to the documentary paradise loss, the child murders at Robin Hood Hills, which came out in June tent an n nineteen. Ninety six, it was about the West Memphis three Damy way: neckls Jason, Balvwin and Jesemus Kelly. They were convicted for the murders of Christopher Byers, Michael Moore and steedy branch, three young boys who are all found naked and hog tied in the woods. This documentary followed them after their convictions and followed a lot of the evidence and started to kind of question. If these boys were really involved at all, I I believe it was Jessiemuss Kelly who was forced very making a murderer style forced into creating a confession, but was considered mentally unfit to do that, because he was a little bit a little bit challenged a so. The questions continued to roll and it led to two more documentaries and these boys were eventually freed, but a certain band was actually an early adopter of the theory that these boys were innocent and licensed for the first time ever any of their music. So all of the music in this documentary and the documentaries following were there music and they had never licensed it for a movie prior to the first to that, first one and it was metallica. Oh Wow, wow, that's not who I thought you were going to say. I thought it was gin like the Dixie, chicks or fucking Pearl Jammers, some shit, that's a neckbreaker right there, that is the double neck, breaker off the top rope right there, a band with a former member of flotsho and Jetson, Ladies and gentlemen, but yeah these, like these guys, were really into this story and just without question. After never licensing a song before licensed an entire sound track three times didn't they license all their songs to napster. They did a wide drop job. THAT'S A likedrop right! There doyes hire good napter bad yeah, BS! Absolutely I'm finished. I was. I was on Kazar, but I don't know about you wow, what a great collection Arit. Let's go down to our judge for the evening Josh from lunch meat. How do you rule on this round? Man Nineti's all the way I mean that's super huge. I mean Kupoxucor and Westmet Tis, three men, I mean those. Those are huge and I mean I have slay or tattoon on my ass guys. Okay, like no doubt I ill give you a picture. That's amazing, I mean is it I mean I Siserjusoi am very confused. You have slayer tattooed on your ass. That's one thing! I understand that you said you had slrtattooed on your ass, like no doubt so is that like slayer and the no dote faut there's a commo there and it's all about grammar baby yeah like slyer comment, no doubt per no doubt Godyeah, but if I he r touch with allmy ass, like no doubtloto. That would be very, very special, and I hope that I need someone that has that, but I'm going to go with Ne Hosan, nine hundred and inety six on this decision. It's three points to two: the Nineties are actually up we're going to the final round, and this is word it's still anyone's game. My friends- and this is what I let I'm really excited for the last round. I feel like it's been really really like level. I think you guys have made great arguments and I chose whatever I thought was you know the most influential or legendary. I guess is the one I would use like the things that really outlast the others. You know, and I think it's a pretty cool score right now. Let me just ask you this before we move on, since you said that in like a hundred and twenty five years, are people still going to talk about tupock getting shot like they still talk about Lizziebordon? They want to stay at our house for two hundred and fifty dollars a night. A hundred and twenty five years is a very long time and we're moving at a rapid rate. That is unpredictable. However, I will say that word of mouth is just as effective as any kind of social media that you can do or any kind of news cast a you can do because word of mouth is super important 'cause. That's like cultural. Like people ask Gen people talk about that stuff, like within their own circles and with news and media you can push those circles outside. I hope that people are still talking about lizzieboard I in a hundred and twenty five years. I know that people will still be talking about two plassand Cors in a hundred and twenty five years. If that makes t that Meler izzieboard a they'll stil that'll be two hundred and fifty years right, Ol e killd on time, wor e odds Ar Agais a mau O so come on, but I feel like that. Stuff is just as important and it just has a different mode of transportation. Like communication like different different things going on, you know, and I think the fact that Lizzie boardon has lasted this long- Is a good testament to how long it could last. You know, because there's no real comparison, because I mean two pockets had the kind of exposure that Lizzie borden could never have, and Lizzieboarden still contends with two pox of core on this battle. So I think that's really cool and important to to think about. I can't predict the future, but I would hope that people would convey this kind of cultural history and information. If we're talking about true crime kind of stuff, I think it's both leasungary. I think it's both both the things that we discussed are important and valuable. So I don't know if you're going with my pointer against it sounds like you're all for I, I three to two in the nineties are up still anyone's game. I choose television. Ladies Yon, ok, this is an interesting one because I actually have mo. I moved this from one category to another, the media coverage of it and the network coverage of it. It's what made me move it into TV but prior to April third, few days prior, ABC contactod the FBI and said we have cracked a story and know that you guys are going to perform a rate on a certain individual and we are going to announce it on the news and the FBI kindly argued no you're, not they said we are going to and we're Gong to do it in a couple of days. They actually forced the SBI's hand, and they found out later on to CBS. NCNN also got wind of this, and we're also planning on breaking the news. So they had to move a search warrant ahead of schedule and they arrested Tedkazinski the UNABOMER. What was interesting there, so they tried to beat media coverage. But what was happening was in that same state. National media was all over the place because there was a shootout happening for an anti government militia that was happening about like thirty miles or so away, and then everybody got wind of this and took off for the shack, and so it is one of the most covered raids and arrests ever seen on television. You they, you got it from every possible angle: 'cause every national network was actually there when he was arrested, and then they were there when he was indicted later on that year so April. Third, he was arrested Nin in Nineteen D. Ninety six, he his trial went on and he didn't get convicted until nineteen. Ninety eight, but as we know he did the man sent about forty mail bombs to different people. He was considered. It was one of the biggest man hunts of the nineties. I they famed unibomer police Ketcho that looked like weird Alyankavian Ahoodi, that was that was out there for an awful long time, poor wheeled ow man that sucks, but just just the idea that not only was this a major televised event, but television influenced the manner in which the investigation came to a close is why that one is such a big deal and why decided to include it in television rather than news? My second one is a guilty pleasure amongst many dbted in April, twenty third, nine teen, ninety six on TLC and no it is not my five hundred pound sit or my life. A to a little person or whatever they do nowadays, I'm married to your five hundred pounds of kiss and it has sixteen children Um. It was forensic files where it took you through a multitude of real cases and showed you how they used farenzics and Actso wasactual a learning show on the learning channel. If you could believe it and showed you how you used forensix to solve these crazy crimes and the crimes were batty beyond unsolved, mysteries Beyo, they were just some of them were absolutely bananas when you looked them up and you see what what they were like and how tough they were to solve. A lot of people still talk about the show it was on for fifteen seasons like I said, but it still airs a just arepeats, and it is a lot of people's favor guilty pleasure to this day. Jog Me Nutsman, it's my wife's favorite show to fall asleep to at night you wake up in the middle of the night, and now all you've been hearing for the past three hours is and the killer crept into her bedroom and slit her throat, that's n, the most peaceful thing to sleep to that's like the ID channel, though every single show in I d channel is about somebody getting stabbed it's horrible. I mean it's just like a horrod channel. Now pretty much. It really is it's! It's frightening. You can't watch that at night you an go to sleep. You wake up in the middle of the night and they're telling some story about just like mark had some stocker, the stocker ones are the worst. Oh, they are it's more disturbing than what they show on Chiller, the actual horror network, chiller socks, all right. So I guess this is those are your two pic all right. So let me let me go here and let's see what happens so, let's begin. May Fourth Nineuteen. Eighty six. We got the one in only more carmon in his mad for TV movie, Classic About Ted Bundy. You know it's prettyit's crazy. When I was looking in this stuff up. Mark Harman is like the king of TV movies. In the eighties and nineties he was in eeleven wow. That's a lot in thi span of like eighty three to ninety two or something leven T v movies. The guy is cut out and nished for himself still his best work is summer school, but yreed absolute best work. Absolute Bestll, I do hat simmer school is like pop ten material. But that's not my pick. I wish it was Ye. That was a true crime that he could yeahexactly, but it is pretty amazing that 'cause Mark Harmot was like the Corse spokesman in eighty five and eighty six. During that time. He's in this movie, where he placed head Bundy, cerial killer he's an HIV victim in saint elsewhere, do had some Downer shit those years and meanwhile he's on commercial like drink a cors lie anyways. They had to turn to drinking. After all that Downershit he did yeah welliprobably had o turn to drinking 'cause. He was in eleven fucking T. Vhe was probably also really drunk during summer school. Like everybody else, I hope so. How drunk can you get off a cour's light, though you G A drink, a lot of that Shit Bhow. This is a three hour epic. It was entitled the Deliberate Stranger and it was created and aired on MBC and it was based Uon the book that shared the seame name. That came out. I N Nineteen. Eighty I was written by Richard Larson, NB C, just basically stuck to all the details of the book. They kept it as accurate as possible. They made this et was a two part Mani series and ranked within the top ten of the Nialson ratings for that month. So that's pretty good for a t, v movie and I'm pretty sure most people ha've heard about Ted Bundys O. I will go into crazy detailing this one, but bundy ended up confessing before he was fried in an electric terro, nearly what is it like? Thirty murders? The? U was, he was a straight monser kidnapping, rape, murder. He had sex with the bodies after he killed them. He decapitated some of his victims, talk about dark shit and we got a fish at this one S. that's why I'm believing my other pick is not as dark, but when you think Syria killer. This is like one of the signature monsters that people think of and the sad thing is. Investigators always believe that there ere way more than thirty victims and those are the ones he can fest to, because he waited all the way till he got electrocuted to confess to those murders. So who knows how many people, this guy killed it? It's just insane, but anyhow, let me move onto the other ones, a it's not as dark as this one. Let me ask you Josh: How old are you? How Old am I yeah? Thirty, four all right, so you might be a little bit young for this one, so you might not remember how big it was mark. You probably will joe since you're Canadian, who the Fuckenyeah I'm I'm forty in metric years. I don't know how you guys work but April twenty first nineteen, eighty six, we get this syndicated prime time event. It's the highest rate of nine unded ND. Eighty six, nearly thirty million people tuned in to watch Hiraldo, Ravera and te crew of excavators tear into the mysterious vault that was owned by the infamous mobster alkpone, and this event was probably titled the mystery of alcpone's vault. This was a hype train for like months. It was monstrous in nineteen six, so basically this construction company, they were paid to do work on the old Lexington Hotel in Chicago and while they were working on it and surveying the property, they stumbled upon, like a bunch of like secret, escape tunnels, shooting range, and then there were rumors. That component hid like a special vault with secret treasures in the building so lowan behold. This is where Horaldo and friends come into play. You didn't just have a Horaldo there, th like they were really expecting to find money bodies like all kinds of shit. They were expecting to find in there so much so that the IRS was there. So if they found any money, they were going to recoupall that they had medical examiners there in case they found bodies there, that they could take hem back lotl morgue and you rumors. We, they wernt rampant that the vault was going to be like tons of money and bodies. So Lo mehold after two hours, they're going into the secret vault whet, do they find Hustler, not even not not even vox an pustles, they did find a box. What's in the bog, it was mostly dirt and like empty box to like gin boxes, the Gyn wasn't even in there. It was just the boxes of the GIN and it was like the most colossal failure in television, the biggest joke every years. THAT'S AL! It's IT'S HORRT's! It's incredible! Peraldo! Immediately after I heard this in an interview we had like years later, he said as soon as the thing ended. There was like a bar across the street and he just went there and drowned himself into Kila because he just figured his career was over. I forgot who he was with. was He with Fox or something before and he got fired. So this was like Kindaf like his big deal like to come back and 'cause. He was kind of starting his career out too. At the same time et wasn't the horral tha so sed so and though I feel like they planned all that, like ha how uld they plant such a Shit Hang O ad- I don't know, I mean it's Horaldo I mean like I don't know: Yeah was it before or after the Nazi broke his nose. Maybe everybody else planned it and he didn't know. Maybe he was the only one that wasn't in Cahos on it 'cause he was sold man. He thought there was going to be some shit there, yeah well they're daisy training him for sure, like Hey, go in there and just do what you do and he's like hate myself, Tekila so yeah. So those are my two picks. We got the the movie bout Ted Bundy, of course, one of the most notorious seal killers of all time and then the mystery of altopone's vault in the mystery is there was nothing in the mot. Owhatthirty million people wasted two hours of their life watching that all right, Josh Championship battle, it all comes down to this. This is huge. This is huge. I want just a recap of both, please just just so. I can fully formulate it. Please just give me a two centent ree cap of both things that both people talked about. Please, okay, Aso, my main one, the rest of the unibomber think about another time when you have had such a publicized man Hunt and then actually got to see the culmination of the man hunt, onlive television that does not occur. You usually get the news at eleven o'clock that the FBI or the CIA has closed in on them, and now he's you know, he's already behind bars awaiting indictment. You got to see him carried out in handcuffs in his gross beard and all that good stuff and you it was the actual crime being witness or the actual criminal being witnessed, forensic files again just an experien experiment in actual crimes and learning and a much deeper beyond detective level how they get solved. It was the real version of CSI, where you know, take all take all the bullshit out of CSI and then attach it to real crimes and some of which seemed so crazy that they were written by the people from CSI and put that on for fifteen years and have people still clamoring for it. God I got it anhre the longest two words ever I'l go short with this one biggest mobster of all time. Worldrernow everybody knows t e occapone and the most notorious cerial killer all time, an Ted body. I got Ta thank my teads better than his ted, not in a good way yeah. But my ted was the real tad who's. Tet ceds. Not here man Heyta s not here, your Ted was so b important. He had to be played by a guy who could only get TV movies at the time dudhe was in summer school. At the same time, Oi am definitely like torn between Mark Harman and Udabomer. So this what's happening right now, HEU're shitting on Horaldo I mean Horaldos fake dude come on. I mean I will go on this potgod and say like do you think those talk shows were real, I mean Jerry Springer took over talk, shows it wasn't real, they didn't make up the old Lexican in the hotel and all the tunnels, and they actually had ju was rean there. They were like counting. They were like counting on subscribers and counting on people, but why would they let them down? It's a really really interesting perspectives like. Why would you let all those people down yeah if it was fake wheln you throw something in there because they have to like nalidate it. They have to say something is Real S. would they start this incredible lie? I don't know this is very difficult. You have made incredible tances on these histories. Coraldo is very tempting. I think. At the end of the day, you got ta look at it like this 'cause I've I've judged before, and I see where you're going you're like trying to pick like one particular thing in each round: that's heavier than all the other ones. It comes to a point where you gotto, like put things together. If there's four, if two wash out, then you gotto compare the other two whe, I'm looking at it as a as a basis of like what are your two arguments combined as opposed to these other two arguments combined and I really feel like unibomer has resounded like. I know some people still remember like what the UNIMOMER is and it makes people feel uncomfortable like it's, not a joke anymore, like a flake. If you put your hoodup with some aviators you're like the unabomber and people will get it like offended and you're like. Oh, oh, that's, terrible, that's terrible! Like people don't make that more offensive than Ted Bundy having sex with a dead body people I mean yes, good point, that's good! It's a good point, but people dressing up as a Horaldo at a Hawegue party. Not that offensive, but I will say I would love to see UNIBOMMER and Horaldo on celebeity death match it. Hat IHE could buy orall, look a box now. I think so. Watch out my God you're right, I'm going to go with UNMOMBER though 'cause it's Udovomer is just. He is a national terror. You know I mean he's a national terror and like that was nineteen enety six, so that's almost fifteen years ago, incredible superscar and everybody was making fun of it because they were odid. You just say nineteen. Ninety six was fifteen years ago. Nineeenty six was twenty. Oh, my God. Where do you think it is? He was a retet twenty thee years ago. No, THAT'S SAN! THAT'S INSANE! I know he does watch a lot of hi. Do I do um? Is that embarrassing? I don't even know like it doesn't even feel like that long ago, that that's why it Lan. That is because it still feels pretty fresh and it's still kind of scary like if I saw somebody come in with a beard and aviators and like wearings reporting a grey hoodie I'l, be like you look like Una bombers. That wins for me UNIBUMMER. I can't argue that I can. I think it is a big deal. I don't know if, if it trumps the Horraltho thing, I mean it's thirty million people but at the same time, you're right, like people still tau like we're talking true crime like true crime and like that Heralda thing, wild very spectacular and very like cool. Is it like true crying? I feel like? U, I feel it's about Al Capone Man. What I mean like I feel like he's a gangster right, so it's like the UNIMOMER is actually really scary and like real crime- and I don't know it's not that it's like newer or older- it's just. I think it is because, like unabomber is more fresh and people still remember it so 'cause, it was only fifteen years ago wha Le Isay, twenty five. I don't know what year it is. That was the best yea. It is the best me and Coay Lenard bringing titles north of the border. Look at this guy. He just gets the swooping play one match with like the worst fucking topic. Tha Market Pick an Cape, the fucking title I feel like. I just lost fucking belt on a Sunday night heat episodeei'm telling your somping guys. I mean true crime, for me. Is IT'S J S? It's just not something that I think about 'cause I deal in a world of fantasy and I mean like true crime is actually scary. You know like harvest apar and like these early novels, like are truly scary. Like it's a total phenomenon, you know where people are actually interested in like how people die and these monsters that make them die. I've chosen, like mult, multiple sides, obviously 'cause it was a pretty close race but, like I think, it's more scary when, like it's further away, you know, I think, Ho people resinate with stuff, that's like further away a like alcapone and John Gotty and stuff like that. Like that's, that's Ak old crime and then you have stuff like Jonbeny Ramsey and the univomer and o j Simpson, and it's like that is those people like you know, kill people or wore killed, and we still are talking about it and it makes a really big residence. Let me just ask you this last question. I mean it's already decided, but out of all the ones that were given to you is the Zodiac? Not the most fucked up one out of all them, it's scariest because it's not solved you know, and I think, like Jen Beneramsey, is not sold right. Tbut, I think like they have prolonged hat for reasons what if it was the Zodiac? What if it was, he would wrote a letter h what the hell kind of toileight Zoner, we livein. You know what I mean like what what I it's all possible and I mean I think, like I loved coming on to this true crime kind of conversation 'cause. It's like I I you know dwell in like fantasy and all that kind of stuff, but, like true crime is really scary. You know, I think, that's why there's murderinos and all this huge fan following comes from is like the SUF is real and it's actually really scary, like Jerry Springer was believed by a lot of people for a long time, Horaldo was believed by people for a long time. The only legit thing he ever did was the AUCAPONE's Bol I mean, maybe it might by? U You tried to kill ut, that's why I tried to Khill Hir for like four hours afterwards en Heo. He was breaking point, you know 'cause, it wasn't scripted and I mean like. I just think that that reality reflected is super important. I don' know ma'am, it's really scary, like Ted Bundy, Cogo, Jeffrey Domer, Henryl, Lucas, all very, very scary figures in our world yeah, it's scary, because it's true, that's the line between fact and fantasy, and I think so many people today are obsessed with this darker side and they take that for entertainment. I mean true crime is such a big topic these days I was T I was talking to man crust the other day and I just realized at some point. In the eighties we used to make movies about people who had lives way more fun than ours, and now we just make movies about people who have lives way more fucked up than ours. You know it's is e difference between escapes and entratments and I think, like people are more interested in the drama of it. That's why Horaldo was so famous for such a long time 'cause. He was a talk, show that helped propel people's interest in the MICAB imean going into a vault onlie TV is very macag. Anyway, you slice it you're, trying to look at dead people, you're tryingto, look at dead people's, say staitly, but I mean like, if you do it on t v movie like Mark Harmon was trying to do it's kind of fantasy and that's why he did it and that's why he did summer school 'cause. He was just trying to act. You Mo you brought up fantasy a lot in this, and I think now it's really Tine together for me, because this is not our whealhouse. I mean this is not what we do normally. So when I'm reading this stuff and for the first time I'm reading it and I'm seeing that these guys, you know they might have killed. You know three or four people proven to kill three or four people, but in their heads they're saying that they've killed hundred run killed. You Know Ten, twenty, fifty, that's even scarier, because you don't even know what the truth is. Well, I be Nacui, he don't do any actuer mean I wanted to choose something else, but honestly, Zodiac killer is the most frightening thing there in that choice, it's like he created a completely different language that high s, professionals cannot decipher and it's still insolved and I mean, like thirty, seven people as a lot of people. Fifty is more, I mean that's really scary, you know, I'm sure a' sure it happens all the time but like to be publicized like that like. Why would you choose to publicize something like that? Even if you can't solve it like? Do you think, like that the eye chooses what they publicize? Do they choose orvr time, prerserr like what is made into a t V movie. I think there's a lot that we don't know about. ABSOLUTSURE MHM, Oh for sure, D theye would make our freaging hair just stand up on it e hairs on Bock of our neck curl and shit like our pubes, just because they don't want to tell us because thatilll happen, you know, so they only give us certain people, the people that they don't give us a lot of low budget movies. Take on to those smaller, like phenomenons o of death, where they're like I'm, going to make a movie about this, and it could be based on Henry Lucas, theycould be based on Poga, but they don't say it like. The sat like what's that based on 'cause I may know, but that is a really scary movie and I mean like the time it came out and everything like et s. What are people prepared for and how do you package it and I think, like true crime, definitely holds a mirror up to all fantasy and horror fans. It's like what are you really looking at and I think it's really cool. So I appreciate the time tonight. Yeah man thanks ore, coming on and letting me lose my first match. I'm sorry am sorry, I it's all good, you know what it was coming. It was coming and you know as always doing this one like I said this is so out of our wheelhouse and like just doing this episode and the tone of this episode and everything we try to make it light, don't think we're trying to make fun of these situations. We just don't know how to handle reading sor like nesearching people, if you don't laugh, eor cry, it's a complete, it's complete aspect. afpartments, I mean it's a complete fantasy that escapes you from reality and when you bring reality into it, it makes it a lot harder makes a lot more viserle and that's why I chose Henry to a portion of the syricule 'cause. That movie is important in that time to transfer people from pantasy an to. Actually, this is a real thing. There you go and that's why they cut it. You know it's a totally different things: Yeah! That's why like, when jaws came out, people Wereo, I'm afraid to take a bath, but when something like Henry Parchert of he ceral Ckiller came out they're, locking their doors, double, locking their doors, buying a gun, Yknowyou, know C 'cause that that's a real fear yeah. You Watch that movie and you're. Like H, I'm going to have a hard time going to sleep tonight and I think that's really important all right. So the nineties, when this one congratulations to the new dueling decades champion Joe Finley Joe Tell people where they can listen to Yo and take a victory lap. Why don't Yo? Okay? No I'm not going to run I'm not in that good af shape yet bwe're going, but you can find me as always on miscast commentary anywhere. You get your podcasts! You can find this IDN. This cast commentary dotcom as well. You can find all of Er content there plus blogs and everything else. I fin me on twitter, I'm at JK Finley. The PO CAST is atmis cast poncast and we've got a outube page where we also do miscast t V, which is just sketches, and you know some chat, stuff and and the lake and thanks a lot to Josh from lunch meat V, JS Josh once again tell people where they can find you and the type of content you offer on your sit: Lungemat DS, DOT COM, unch, Mat, vhs on all social media. It's complete ehs, appreciation, celebration and preservation, anything that has to do with vajs culture, we're trying to preserve it and celebrate it all right. So we'll end this episode right here, deelers thanks for listening. If you've missed the past episode, you can always go back on our website. Dueling decades dotcom. You can listen to all the episodes there and also subscribe on Itunes and on CAS box, and then, after you listened to the episode Cruzon over to Facebook, dotcom forward, slash dueling decades, where you can join in the conversation for yourself. So until next time, fellow doelers we're going to Bitgh you, a pece love, Lightin, a joy sleep. Well, everybody infirmaymedia